Re: [-empyre-] space, time and narrative

steve guynup <exposedfield@yahoo.com> · Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:50:07 -0700 (PDT)

> "modelling" time...
It's an interesting term as implies something new to
vr. Perhaps there is a much deeper intergration a 
between objects/environments and time. Something
fundamental.

Many works shown (mine included) use color as a
"lure". In this sense, would it be appropriate to call
color a component of time? 

As for constructs of game theory and scripted space,
both apply - but sometimes they leave me with an
uneasy feeling that I am simply building a maze and
treating the visitor as a mouse moving through it. All
for the purpose of my conceptual cheese. 

In Walter Benjamin's construct of
Painter is to Magician
Surgeon is to Camerman
maybe
Animal(mouse) Trainer is to Game Designer
(Trainer is meant in the best possible sense)

In virtual space I feel like I can pick and choose
between all Painter, Surgeon, Trainer...and perhaps
have too. All in order to support the freedom of the
user and not their containment.

peace
Steve

--- nobox <contact@nobox-lab.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > So unlike in classical music we are not
> controlling time - in an
> > interactive work we actually do NOT usually want
> to force the user to
> > proceed at a certain rate, because when we remove
> their ability to
> > actively shape their own experience we remove a
> large part of their
> > engagement with the piece.
> 
> hi,
> 
> I think in a certain way WE (the one who create the
> interactive work AND the
> spectActor) are "modelling" time...
> Of course not like the editor of movies do. We are
> sharing time with users,
> trying to imagine speed , paths and events,
> and then giving the freedom of imaging and using all
> the other possible
> times. Users are modelling time of works.
> In this axis the relationship beetween creator and
> user is really
> interesting. The dimension of a shared and
> delocalized space
> is for me an imprtant part of web3d. We can acces
> and act on it at any
> time/everywhere you can find a computer and a
> connexion.
> The spectActor can perturbate, make varying and let
> a trace of
> presence/absence in work.
> I often ask myself which plateform or system are
> able to receive collective
> works... i think web3d is one of those...
> 
> 
> grégoire
> 
> ps/sorry for my so poor english...
> 
> 
> 
> Grégoire Zabé / Design(s)er, artiste, intervenant à
> l'école supérieure des
> arts décoratifs de Strasbourg
> http://www.nobox-lab.com
> contact@nobox-lab.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tamiko Thiel" <tamiko@alum.mit.edu>
> To: <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:02 AM
> Subject: [-empyre-] space, time and narrative
> 
> 
> > Hi Y'all -
> >
> > In answer to Roya's question "How can digital
> artists tell stories
> > without words? Should they? Is it possible?" I
> agree with Steve: we
> > control space and use it to negotiate time with
> the user. The user in
> > turn has the responsibility of actively investing
> their time in
> > negotiating the space that we have provided for
> them. In doing so they
> > (oh god! not that term again!!!) "create" their
> own narrative - because
> > narrative is basically events happening in time.
> >
> > I like to think of what we do in terms of
> "choreographing" the user's
> > experience: we set up structures of space and
> embellish them with
> > constraints (no you can't walk through the walls;
> try the door instead,
> > etc.) and lures (if you've already seen everything
> in here, how about
> > checking out this new little thing I make appear
> outside? etc.) in order
> > to shape the possible experience that the user can
> have in that virtual
> > space. The user still has to execute the movements
> themselves, but with
> > the "physical" and dramatic structure that we have
> created in order to
> > SHAPE their experience.
> >
> > So unlike in classical music we are not
> controlling time - in an
> > interactive work we actually do NOT usually want
> to force the user to
> > proceed at a certain rate, because when we remove
> their ability to
> > actively shape their own experience we remove a
> large part of their
> > engagement with the piece.
> >
> > But we ARE setting up structures that form a
> framework in which the
> > user's own engagement should produce a dramatic
> experience. No user
> > engagement: no experience. No framework: no drama.
> >
> > I get the sense that many media critics confuse
> the concept of "creating
> > your own narrative" with "create your own
> artwork." The two are not
> > necessarily the same. Creating an interactive
> artwork means creating a
> > framework. Creating a narrative in this context
> means starting
> > somewhere, ending somewhere and arranging the
> events that happen in
> > between. We can perceive events out of time but to
> "make sense" of them
> > we seem to be hard-wired to create narratives,
> i.e. descriptions of
> > events in time with the implication - not
> necessarily desired, but hard
> > to avoid - of cause and effect.
> >
> > - tamiko
> >
> >
> > roya wrote:
> >  >
> >  > - How can digital artists tell stories without
> words? Should they? Is
> >  > it possible?
> >
> > steve guynup wrote:
> >  >
> >  > I've always thought that moving through space
> created
> >  > a narrative. (the term narrative is used
> loosely)
> >  > ...
> >  > So what about us - do we control time and
> space? Well,
> >  > space I do believe we as builders completely
> control.
> >  > Nothing is there or does anything that we
> didn't (even
> >  > accidentally) program.
> >  >
> >  > Time on the other hand we don't control. The
> user
> >  > moves through the space at their own pace and
> in their
> >  > own directions. They create their own linear
> >  > narrative, their own timeline of events.
> >  >
> >  > In the end, we negotiate time with the user. We
> do
> >  > this by creating pathways in which we hope/have
> to
> >  > follow our timeline ...Much of what we do to
> define
> >  > space is really to affect time.
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------
> >   Tamiko Thiel       Media Artist
> >
> >   tamiko@alum.mit.edu
> >   http://mission.base.com/tamiko/
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> > empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre

=====
________________________________________________

    The reality of the building does not 
    consist in the four walls and roof but
    in the space within to be lived.

    - Laotzu

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